Yair Lapid: Good evening, Mr. Prime Minister.

PM Olmert: Good evening.

Lapid: Two days ago, at the rally at Rabin Square, David Grossman, who lost his son Uri in the second Lebanon War, stood and spoke in a speech directed at you, during which he said: “When is the last time the Prime Minister expressed or made a move which is in his power to open a new horizon for Israelis, a better future?  When has he initiated a social or cultural or meritorious step rather than simply respond – respond recklessly to moves forced on him by others?”  Is there truth in this?

PM: No.  I believe there is no truth to this, however – look, I did not listen to the speech, I did not see it, but I read it later.  And I understood that he gave a speech which impressed many people, both in what was said and also how they were said.  And David asked that I not respond to him, supposedly that I not say that I understand his grief, do not understand his grief.  And I truly do not want to refer to this.  I know him and we have met in the past, and probably will meet again in the future.  And we will talk and argue – we always argued, because David Grossman’s opinion was always on the farther Left.

And in this aspect, it endured and we disagree, but I wish to say also to David Grossman that I do not know if I remember that I have been Prime Minister exactly six months, and during those six months, many things have occurred.  Because of this, I want to say something about what happened a little more than six months ago – I was a shoo-in for Prime Minister – perhaps the first in the history of the State of Israel, who on the eve of elections said: here is my political plan, a political plan which aroused tremendous repercussions around the world.  And this cost me votes.  And when I said it, despite the warnings of my close advisers who told me not to do this – it is not good on the eve of elections, why do this?  And I said, I want them to know exactly.

Yair Lapid: Currently the Realignment is frozen and there is not alternative.  The coalition is one of the broadest that have been, but to where does it lead?  Where are we going?

PM: So, first of all, this coalition has existed two weeks, and in the political reality of the State of Israel, to establish such a coalition is not to be taken for granted.  It is something which takes time and one must know how to do it.

Yair Lapid: It is not the goal, it is the tool.

PM: That is right.  But it was established just two weeks ago.  Now there are three central areas which I am going to focus on, and I also announced them.  One is the matter of changing the system of government, to create a continuity of stability for our political life, so that we can create genuine stability for our democracy. 

The second sphere – is the social sphere.  In this year’s budget which we are about vote on, we have added NIS 3 billion 809 million for social issues. 

Another thing is the diplomatic sphere.  There is no stone I will leave unturned, there is no effort I will not make to try to achieve dialogue with the Palestinians.  It is no secret, and you undoubtedly already know this if you read the newspapers.  I approached them in all possible ways, including direct contact between my assistants with Abu-Mazen’s assistants.  He is not ready for a meeting, he does not want a meeting, he still cannot hold a meeting.

Yair Lapid: In that same speech, Grossman said: “If an Arab president or leader approaches you and wants to meet or make peace, you do not have the moral right not to invite him immediately for a meeting.

PM:  That is David Grossman’s opinion.  He has the privilege that he does not need to know.

Yair Lapid: There does not need to be anything from Syria or Lebanon?

PM: I genuinely hope that there will be things in Lebanon.  I can say to you that two senior world leaders are acting per my request to try and create the conditions for a personal meeting between Seniora and myself – I spoke personally with them both.  They were both excited to even act towards this.  Of course, I will spare you further details.  Naturally – however, numerous messages are being sent.

Yair Lapid: You want to meet with him? Are you calling on him to meet?

PM:  Very much, very much.  Of course I am calling on him to meet, but I am not satisfied only by calling on him, even though I have no doubt that he will not miss your show today, Yair, since few miss it.

Yair Lapid: Without preconditions, are you prepared to meet with Asad as well?

PM: There is no question of preconditions.  Everyone understands – and you must consider it.  When I must meet with Asad, it means that by doing so, I agreed, whether I say it or not – to withdraw from the entire Golan Heights.  Let us assume for a moment that I would say that I take it upon myself – in this scenario – to make this commitment.  Of course the first question that would be asked is: what are we receiving in return?  Is it possible that this will allow us to succeed in cutting Syria off from the axis of evil of Iran and the Hizbullah?  I sit with all the experts in Israel, I consult with them and discuss it with them, and not a single one of them – not one – who said that even if we return the entire Golan Heights is there a chance that we will achieve it.  But what will happen if we proceed with this step, if we ignore the fact that Asad is one of the greatest supporters of terror – he is the man who supports Halad Mashal… Throughout the war we are conducting in the territories, in Gaza and Judea and Samaria against Hamas terror – is Mashal, and this is the man who supports him. 

Assuming we ignore all this, if we enter into such talks when we know – in this instance – that we are prepared to relinquish the entire Golan Heights, and we end up without an agreement, one thing is certain – there will be war.  And then David Grossman will make another speech and say, “What a fool the Prime Minister was.”  However, it is only in speeches that it is easy to take responsibility for decisions I need to make.

Yair Lapid: I am not always certain that you have time to make these decisions, because since you became Prime Minister – the State Comptroller has begun investigating you on a scale which is unprecedented.  Is all this smoke with no fire?

PM: That is exactly the situation.  They investigate one, they investigate two, they investigate three, they investigate… For example, I remember that on page 22 there was an obituary for Grandmother Feige from Ramat Hasharon, and it was also written that the Attorney General found that there was nothing regarding the pens – one does not remember that, they only remember the smoke.  They refute one thing and then another and then another, and in the end, a normal person like you, says: what?  All this, all this smoke without a little fire?  And I say to you, there is no fire, there is nothing.  There is something insufferable in this, unacceptable and unprecedented – in my opinion, despite the fact that all recent prime ministers have had similar experiences of being investigated, they were not organized campaigns like that being conducted against me.

Yair Lapid: If there is an organized campaign, there must be an organizer.

PM: Yair, I will tell you something – of course, of course there is an organizer.  I am the Prime Minister, and because I am the Prime Minister, I must, in some way – I must determine a boundary between what I want to say and what I can say.  However, your assumption is certainly correct.

Yair Lapid: Is this a political conspiracy?

PM: I am the Prime Minister, but I will not say anything that implies that the Prime Minister has a position which can harm or stain or raise questions or amazement about such a senior position as State Comptroller.  However, personally, I think and feel… you know what – you can ask Prof. Amnon Rubenstein, Prof. Shlomo Avneri, two of the best professors in the State of Israel, who wrote… read their announcement.

Yair Lapid: The announcement stated that generally, the State Comptroller is exceeding his authority and ruining the institution of the State Comptroller.  I understand that you agree with this.

PM: No, I am simply saying that this is an interesting opinion of people who are above any suspicion that they have some sort of personal interest in me.  I hope there will not be an investigation opened against them in the near future.

Yair Lapid: Do you sometimes get angry at yourself?  Do you ask yourself, “perhaps I was not sensitive enough, perhaps I was not cautious enough as a public figure?” – political insensitivity.

PM: I will tell you something.  You know, I have had many conversations with Aliza about this… perhaps not on what is happening right now.  You understand, that is not the question.  We said that there are situations in which you do something, and you do it in complete innocence, and after 5 years someone pulls it out of its context, puts it on you and ascribes you malicious intentions, does so week after week, and whoever reads these things can think that for all these months, I have done nothing but buy and sell apartments.

In the 37 years of my marriage, I bought or sold 3 or 4 apartments, which happens with every average citizen, I suppose.  However, this is not the point.  In the end, there were several things we chatted about amongst ourselves – who can say something about this or that matter, for example, what will be – and two days later, you are accused of having done, received, your were sold something, you bought something – there is something malicious and organized, which is being conducted on an unprecedented scale.  And I have to ask myself if I am running the State of Israel or if I am being dragged into dealing with other things.  No one agreed to distract me from matters which are important to me.

Yair Lapid: You say malicious and organized.  Do you mean that it is not just Lindenstrauss alone, but something broader?

PM: There are people in the media, there are people in politics, there are people in the government, and when they all get together – it is broad.  There is undoubtedly something here.  Look, one or two weeks ago, I do not remember exactly when – I was sitting in a meeting at my bureau, in which the most fateful subjects for the State of Israel were discussed.  I cannot tell you how many, but I can tell you how – the most fateful subjects related to the State of Israel, and you sit there and you need a clear head and need to be completely focused and know that now there is nothing which can distract you – because this is it.  And then we heard a knock on the door, and the door opened and one of my assistants said, “Sorry to interrupt.”  I said that he could not interrupt now, now I am busy.  He said, yes, but they are accusing you in regard to the bank and in regard to this and that, and we must respond, the news will be on soon and we must respond.  I said, I heard, close the door, I will not respond now.

Later, they, your colleagues at the newspaper, accuse me of not responding, why did you not say?  I am busy with the most important matters of the State of Israel, and I will continue to do so.  What I feel when I am here tonight and meet with Aliza and what I think about these experiences, you can already imagine.

Yair Lapid: It was written in the papers that in the polls, the public views you as the most corrupt leader.

PM:  Then imagine, when I think of maliciousness, dishonesty, humiliations, attacks on me – I am a political figure – the attacks on my family, my children, my wife, the search for all sorts of things that I would rather not speak about.  That is why I say that there is no boundary, no boundary, there is no place where people with the minimum of conscience say, no further.  The media has no judgment.  What you did during the war was not enough?  I leave these questions unanswered.

Yair Lapid: This morning, thousands of Haredim again violently protested the Gay Pride Parade and the Attorney General decided that the Parade will take place in Jerusalem.  What do you think about that?

PM: In truth, when I served as Mayor, there was a Gay Pride Parade in Jerusalem.  However, it was a much more balanced parade, moderate, quiet – there was no element of provocation.  There is no doubt that the way in which it is presented by the organizers – there was some attempt to provoke.  I think even the organizers say so.  On the other hand, in a democracy there is the right to provoke.  The Haredim also have the right to protest this matter exactly as they are protesting – I speak of their right to legitimately protest.  I do not determine.  If the police says that they can protect the parade, then it should be held, and if the police says that it cannot protect the parade – we need their professional opinion.

Yair Lapid: To conclude, a question with a one word answer: did we, in your opinion, win or lose the war?

PM: More than one word.  A. We won.  B. I did not make do with just the Chief of General Staff, I met with junior and mid-level officers.  I was at the Northern Command, I spoke with people.  I saw their determination, their pride, I heard their stories about what happened in the field, and I remembered what Nasrallah said.  Nasrallah said: “If I had known just 1% of what I would suffer, I never would have started.”  When I saw the regiment commanders, I saw the determination in their eyes and I saw the pain they feel because people do not understand how much we won.  I hurt together with them, and I was proud with them.

Yair Lapid: Mr. Prime Minister, thank you very much.